Here is a thread of thought on the murderous group called ISIL, and what Americans think about it, and what is being done about it. It is from a conversation on Facebook, and really shows some of the strong feelings Americans have about the terrorist group. One thing that seems to be agreed on if anything is, ISIL needs to go. Read it for yourself and come to your own conclusions.
James Parks Jr. Have you ever heard of the Visigoths, led by Alaric I. The Sack of Rome was by them and occurred on August 24, 410. Before then Alaric was trained by and fought side by side with the Romans. Later when the forces of the Visigoth were no longer needed, they were no longer used. But they still retained the knowledge of Roman battle tactics.
The Visigoths demanded tribute from Rome in the form of tons of gold. Later that proved insufficient. Thus came the Sack of Rome, and the fall of the Roman Empire.
Sometimes I feel like we live in a modern Rome. Like we are paying off the so-called barbarians. Our people are unwilling to use our warriors to confront an enemy bent on our destruction. Our nation, who was once thought of as strong, is looked at as being weak. If our nation was seen as one of strength, Putin wouldn't be testing us with the launch of an ICBM, and saying it was due to American aggression. Groups like ISIS wouldn't be running rampant if our nation was seen as a real Super Power. Any person who keeps up with the news knows this.
So far our nations president has dealt with our enemies from a position of weakness. The weakness comes from political indecisiveness. Indecisiveness of a president who is opposed at every turn by a hostile congress. When the barbarians come banging at our gates, it will be because we invited them through weakness. How long till the Sacking of Washington?
The Visigoths demanded tribute from Rome in the form of tons of gold. Later that proved insufficient. Thus came the Sack of Rome, and the fall of the Roman Empire.
Sometimes I feel like we live in a modern Rome. Like we are paying off the so-called barbarians. Our people are unwilling to use our warriors to confront an enemy bent on our destruction. Our nation, who was once thought of as strong, is looked at as being weak. If our nation was seen as one of strength, Putin wouldn't be testing us with the launch of an ICBM, and saying it was due to American aggression. Groups like ISIS wouldn't be running rampant if our nation was seen as a real Super Power. Any person who keeps up with the news knows this.
So far our nations president has dealt with our enemies from a position of weakness. The weakness comes from political indecisiveness. Indecisiveness of a president who is opposed at every turn by a hostile congress. When the barbarians come banging at our gates, it will be because we invited them through weakness. How long till the Sacking of Washington?
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But I should point out. Rome wasn't sacked for a lack of militaristic will. It was because it tried to control the whole world. The legions were spread far and wide protecting too many far-flung interests. If Rome had been run by a sensible emperor, he would have disengaged as much as possible from trying to run an orderly world, and kept his troops closer to home to protect the Roman people. The Brits failed to learn that same lesson.
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In 408 he laid siege upon Rome. The Senate of Rome was forced to give him a lot of gold, and to liberate all 40,000 Gothic slaves in Rome. A year later they refused to give Alaric a commission, so he once again laid siege upon Rome in 409. By 410 they were running the streets when the starved Romans finally opened the gates to the city. One would think that if Rome had all these armies at their command they could of mustered up enough forces in 12 months to prevent the subsequent sacking. By the time this happened, Rome was already in decline. The sack of Rome was just the period at the end of a glorious sentence.
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While it IS true that our President is hamstrung quite often by congress, I don't think any rational leader of any belligerent group, be it a nation or terrorist organization, views the President as indecisive. Propaganda fed Americans who would LIKE this to be true view him this way. This is an easy perception to foster in a political sense, because he is deliberative. He DOES take his time on making decisions. Personally, I think that is a good thing. Too many bad decisions have been made in recent decades, trying to instantly fix problems that actually evolved into different problems than the one that was quickly dealt with. But back in (March, was it?) When Barack threatened using American military might on Syrian targets, what happened? The "Supposedly" more decisive Putin, contemplating losses both personnel-wise and more importantly, financially, backed down and encouraged his puppet Assad to begin handing over his chemical weapons. How has this been so quickly forgotten? This president doesn't REact to moves by foreign potentates. He slowly sets the stage for counter offensives that leave his enemies reeling, since he didn't give them the move they wanted
This isn't 5th century Rome. There is no modern equivalent of the Visigoths. Today, we are dealing with small bands of terrorists and political opportunism. If we concentrate our intelligence resources on the operations of terror cells, instead of getting sucked into massive military ventures halfway around the world, we will be much safer. Certainly safe enough from crude hoardes two seas away from our borders. Pennsylvania Avenue is safe enough. Main Street in anytown U.S.A. is the true target for these barbaric groups. They want us to take our eyes off our own homeland, tied down logistically and strategically in far away lands. There is no doubt we have good reasons, both tactically and humanitarian-wise to confront them on THEIR battlefield. But doing it quickly, simply to "show resolve" won't gain us anything, and may actually create more problems than we already have. A judicious, clear-headed approach is the way to go. You can't kill an ant mound with a hammer. You've got to poison it. Smashing 20 ants may seem satisfying at the moment until they're crawling all over your arm. Apply the poison, then walk away. Their frenzy is their weakness. Blundering into their mound would be ours.
This isn't 5th century Rome. There is no modern equivalent of the Visigoths. Today, we are dealing with small bands of terrorists and political opportunism. If we concentrate our intelligence resources on the operations of terror cells, instead of getting sucked into massive military ventures halfway around the world, we will be much safer. Certainly safe enough from crude hoardes two seas away from our borders. Pennsylvania Avenue is safe enough. Main Street in anytown U.S.A. is the true target for these barbaric groups. They want us to take our eyes off our own homeland, tied down logistically and strategically in far away lands. There is no doubt we have good reasons, both tactically and humanitarian-wise to confront them on THEIR battlefield. But doing it quickly, simply to "show resolve" won't gain us anything, and may actually create more problems than we already have. A judicious, clear-headed approach is the way to go. You can't kill an ant mound with a hammer. You've got to poison it. Smashing 20 ants may seem satisfying at the moment until they're crawling all over your arm. Apply the poison, then walk away. Their frenzy is their weakness. Blundering into their mound would be ours.
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You should know by now I am not some propaganda fed fool who believes everything told to him. My views on the presidents indecisiveness has come from my own deliberation, and not by watching Fox News. (I seldom view their trash news, they have no credibility) One time I was training a person on how to do aircraft structural repairs. I instructed him on how to locate the place to drill a hole, and drill a quality hole. Well, he carefully read the blueprints, did measurements and marked lines where to drill. He was very careful, and examined and reexamined the spot to drill. He chucked up his drill and studied things carefully. So carefully he was falling woefully behind. I told him that one can only examine the prints and structure so much then you have to put the drill to the metal and make a hole. He said he didn't want to make a mistake, and that was fine. Still you have got to come to the point when you trust your judgement and drill that hole. Our president has studied to the point of falling woefully behind. The only problem is, falling behind in this is costing the lives of thousands. The force called ISIL has increased in size by double since their initial incursion into Iraq. The president called it a red line not to be crossed in Syria if chemical weapons were used. They were used and our president did nothing. Bargain with Russia? That turned out sweet. You do realize Russia has threatened us at lease twice with nuclear attack since then don't you? They were veiled threats, but the last one was in the form of an ICBM launch test from a submarine because of "American Aggression". I remember when Desert Storm happened. It was a short time we had a coalition, and was pounding the Iraq forces into dust. No this is not 5th century Rome, but the parallels are there. Some times you have to take a strong stance, and this is one of them. The president has taken way to long by trying to keep the GOP from having ammunition to use against him. Boehner has already stated that he believes the president's plan will not work. Frankly, I agree with him. I'll say it again, the minute ISIL crossed the Iraqi border, our nation should of said "Oh no the hell you don't. Not after all the blood and treasure we spent you don't." Then pounded the crap out of the bastards while they were relatively weak. One of our problems is we are trying to be nice to everyone. You can't please everyone. If you try the same thing that is happening to the USA will happen to you. Everyone will think you are weak and will try to take advantage. There is no doing it quickly to show resolve. There is only pounding the crap out of our enemies as soon as we are able to kill the enemy, and to save the innocent. There is no blundering into their mound. Our commanding generals are the best in the world. Our forces outmatch them piece for piece and man for man. There is no blundering. Only killing the enemy. I see even your lack of faith in the power of the United States military has been effected by the presidents inaction. I like president Obama for a lot of things. The only thing I didn't like about him when he was first elected was a lack of military expertise or experience. Now my fears about him have come home to roost. I just wonder how many people have been forced at the tip of a sword to convert or die while I wrote this. I seriously wouldn't doubt it if it was more than a few.
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I wrote this on August 11, 2014. Hurrah for the Kurds
Hurrah for the Kurds. The only indigenous force in Iraq that didn't turn tail and run in the face of ISIS. Let's not let the brave Kurds down. Let us help them fight for their lives. Let us fight beside them to eliminate ISIS for good and all. Let's not leave them hanging like they did after the Kuwait invasion. We should arm them. The Kurds are probably the one group we can trust the most. They have stuck with us from the get-go. We shouldn't turn our backs on them, or any of the civilians under threat from radicals like ISIS. That includes that group in Africa, Boko Haram. They need to be eliminated just as much as any of the others. If there is something we can do to cause their extinction, we need to be doing it.
American relationship with Iraqi Kurds long, complicated
Steve Kornacki traces the history of the U.S. relationship with Iraqi Kurds, from the failure to deliver support to an anti-Saddam Hussein uprising during George H.W. Bush administration to President Obama’s humanitarian airdrops and targeted military strikes against ISIS.
I don't voice my opinion on the religious aspects much because I'm an atheist with a lot of friends who believe. We respect each other. I've still got an opinion, so here is an atheist take on it. One thing that really makes things hard is all the factions within all the religious groups. ISIS shows how problematic this can be. There are millions of people who are Muslims. Just the same as all other religions, their are different interpretations of their holy book, and that has caused factions. Now one of the radical factions, who have taken a barbaric interpretation of the Koran have gone amok. That makes it really hard on everyone else. Everyone wants to eliminate them. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Atheists and most others agree. ISIS can't be allowed to exist.
Shedding light on the aspirations of ISIS
Al Arabiya’s Hisham Melhem joins via phone to discuss the aspirations of terror organization ISIS, and the threat the group poses against Kurds and U.S. interests in Iraq.
ISIS, claiming the Islamic faith, have made it bad on the people they are terrorizing, killing, raping and enslaving. They have indirectly made it bad on the other people who have the Islamic faith too. Idiots take it like all Muslims want to behead the infidels. That just isn't the case. The vast majority of people on the planet just want to make a living, raise their families, and be left alone so they can peacefully live their lives.
Now we have attacked the ISIS with bombs. They took down the hated black flags off their trucks. As the good Humans fight to rid our world of the pathogens named ISIS, they may try to meld into the populace. That will make things harder, and still very dangerous for the average person there. They will have mass murderers mixed in with their people. It may sound like a witch hunt, but the people need to keep their eyes open. They need to point their finger so all of them can be rooted out, and dealt with. They are dangerous criminals who will retaliate against people for turning them in. That is where things become hard. No one wants their family singled out for elimination, but that is exactly what can happen with the ISIS group. It is scary as hell. This situation will call for supreme bravery and courage, not only from us, but from the good people of Iraq who wish to finally live in peace.
You seen the bad Humans burning their passports as a sign of allegiance to death and insanity. Not all of them traitors are doing that, I wager. Some of them are still here, some of them are still there. They will meld into the crowd and use their passports to gain access to places people are peacefully living. They will cause mayhem here and there as long as they are allowed to exist. They have vocally threatened us all, and acted on it.
So everyone who isn't, and/or is a Muslim, or anyone else for that matter, can help out in attitude. Don't look at people like ISIS as Muslims, or representing Islam. They are something dedicated to evil and thus are accursed. To borrow an expression, ISIS and their like are an abomination to Humanity. Look at them in the same light you would the Nazis, Khmer Rouge, The Inquisition, or any twisted ideology that promotes its existence through threat of death or violence. Look at them in the same light you would anything that forcefully threatens the peaceful existence and advancement of Humanity. Look at them as a pathogen who's elimination is imperative, peremptory. Nothing more, nothing less.
Right now as you read this, some person stood up for what they believe in, and got their head cut off for it. Now their body lays in the street, and their head on a pole. http://insolint.blogspot.com/2014/08/hurrah-for-kurds.html
Hurrah for the Kurds. The only indigenous force in Iraq that didn't turn tail and run in the face of ISIS. Let's not let the brave Kurds down. Let us help them fight for their lives. Let us fight beside them to eliminate ISIS for good and all. Let's not leave them hanging like they did after the Kuwait invasion. We should arm them. The Kurds are probably the one group we can trust the most. They have stuck with us from the get-go. We shouldn't turn our backs on them, or any of the civilians under threat from radicals like ISIS. That includes that group in Africa, Boko Haram. They need to be eliminated just as much as any of the others. If there is something we can do to cause their extinction, we need to be doing it.
American relationship with Iraqi Kurds long, complicated
Steve Kornacki traces the history of the U.S. relationship with Iraqi Kurds, from the failure to deliver support to an anti-Saddam Hussein uprising during George H.W. Bush administration to President Obama’s humanitarian airdrops and targeted military strikes against ISIS.
I don't voice my opinion on the religious aspects much because I'm an atheist with a lot of friends who believe. We respect each other. I've still got an opinion, so here is an atheist take on it. One thing that really makes things hard is all the factions within all the religious groups. ISIS shows how problematic this can be. There are millions of people who are Muslims. Just the same as all other religions, their are different interpretations of their holy book, and that has caused factions. Now one of the radical factions, who have taken a barbaric interpretation of the Koran have gone amok. That makes it really hard on everyone else. Everyone wants to eliminate them. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Atheists and most others agree. ISIS can't be allowed to exist.
Shedding light on the aspirations of ISIS
Al Arabiya’s Hisham Melhem joins via phone to discuss the aspirations of terror organization ISIS, and the threat the group poses against Kurds and U.S. interests in Iraq.
ISIS, claiming the Islamic faith, have made it bad on the people they are terrorizing, killing, raping and enslaving. They have indirectly made it bad on the other people who have the Islamic faith too. Idiots take it like all Muslims want to behead the infidels. That just isn't the case. The vast majority of people on the planet just want to make a living, raise their families, and be left alone so they can peacefully live their lives.
Now we have attacked the ISIS with bombs. They took down the hated black flags off their trucks. As the good Humans fight to rid our world of the pathogens named ISIS, they may try to meld into the populace. That will make things harder, and still very dangerous for the average person there. They will have mass murderers mixed in with their people. It may sound like a witch hunt, but the people need to keep their eyes open. They need to point their finger so all of them can be rooted out, and dealt with. They are dangerous criminals who will retaliate against people for turning them in. That is where things become hard. No one wants their family singled out for elimination, but that is exactly what can happen with the ISIS group. It is scary as hell. This situation will call for supreme bravery and courage, not only from us, but from the good people of Iraq who wish to finally live in peace.
You seen the bad Humans burning their passports as a sign of allegiance to death and insanity. Not all of them traitors are doing that, I wager. Some of them are still here, some of them are still there. They will meld into the crowd and use their passports to gain access to places people are peacefully living. They will cause mayhem here and there as long as they are allowed to exist. They have vocally threatened us all, and acted on it.
So everyone who isn't, and/or is a Muslim, or anyone else for that matter, can help out in attitude. Don't look at people like ISIS as Muslims, or representing Islam. They are something dedicated to evil and thus are accursed. To borrow an expression, ISIS and their like are an abomination to Humanity. Look at them in the same light you would the Nazis, Khmer Rouge, The Inquisition, or any twisted ideology that promotes its existence through threat of death or violence. Look at them in the same light you would anything that forcefully threatens the peaceful existence and advancement of Humanity. Look at them as a pathogen who's elimination is imperative, peremptory. Nothing more, nothing less.
Right now as you read this, some person stood up for what they believe in, and got their head cut off for it. Now their body lays in the street, and their head on a pole. http://insolint.blogspot.com/2014/08/hurrah-for-kurds.html
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I wrote that over a month ago. How many people have been sacrifice in the name of deliberation and restraint in the month past? How many more will be beheaded while we wring our hands trying to keep a worried populace at ease. The president has stated time and again that we will put no boots on the ground. I think we now have over 1000 "advisers" there. Come now. We all know that advisers = boots on the ground. We aren't children. We deserve to know exactly what we are up against and what we are doing about it. No one wants war or to send our troops into harms way, but when that time comes we must pursue the mission vigorously and with resolve. Backing up our deadly warriors with every fiber of our being. We don't send our men and women to die in combat. We send them to kill the enemies of peace and liberty.
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First of all James, I'd like you to understand that I don't consider you a gullible fool. If I were to offer a personal criticism, it wouldn't be that. I just feel that your judgement that there is an easy military solution to this situation is oversimplified. I have ultimate faith in our armed forces, but our use of them has repeatedly caused problems that had to be dealt with later.
We are very much on the same level with what needs to be done. There are fanatics who will NOT see reason, and must be exterminated for the good of us all.
Where we differ is 1.) how that is best accomplished, and 2.) What the time table needs to be for this to be accomplished.
Like you, I am infuriated at the inhuman acts of these fanatics. But I'm certain that a grand strategy of cooperation through diplomatic appeals, and thorough preparation can prevent the previous mistakes from happening again. Sure, Desert Storm was a smashing success. It was over in a matter of weeks. But then a guy named Osama bin Laden, who was pupil of ours, until he turned to evil, went out and recruited thousands of more fanatics telling them he needed their help to remove the infidels from "the holy land".
What you see as hand wringing and indecisiveness, I see as careful strategizing. You see a Commander in Chief "falling behind" I see a President who has time and time again had his slow, well-measured approach vindicated.
Like you, I don't think we send our warriors into combat to die. But we've learned, that it isn't necessary or prudent in all cases for having them sent there to kill. It makes a helluva lot of sense to me, that our warriors be sent there to teach someone else to do the killing. To clean up their OWN back yard. If we don't go over and indiscriminately bomb the piss out of things, we may find that there are people on that property willing to work towards that goal. We go over and create a Plain Of Jars, and we lose the population...AND the conflict.That's it for me. I have work tonight for a change. Ciao!
We are very much on the same level with what needs to be done. There are fanatics who will NOT see reason, and must be exterminated for the good of us all.
Where we differ is 1.) how that is best accomplished, and 2.) What the time table needs to be for this to be accomplished.
Like you, I am infuriated at the inhuman acts of these fanatics. But I'm certain that a grand strategy of cooperation through diplomatic appeals, and thorough preparation can prevent the previous mistakes from happening again. Sure, Desert Storm was a smashing success. It was over in a matter of weeks. But then a guy named Osama bin Laden, who was pupil of ours, until he turned to evil, went out and recruited thousands of more fanatics telling them he needed their help to remove the infidels from "the holy land".
What you see as hand wringing and indecisiveness, I see as careful strategizing. You see a Commander in Chief "falling behind" I see a President who has time and time again had his slow, well-measured approach vindicated.
Like you, I don't think we send our warriors into combat to die. But we've learned, that it isn't necessary or prudent in all cases for having them sent there to kill. It makes a helluva lot of sense to me, that our warriors be sent there to teach someone else to do the killing. To clean up their OWN back yard. If we don't go over and indiscriminately bomb the piss out of things, we may find that there are people on that property willing to work towards that goal. We go over and create a Plain Of Jars, and we lose the population...AND the conflict.That's it for me. I have work tonight for a change. Ciao!
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Alan that was well written, to give you credit, I love the idea of having the world with us on this, because that is how we won WWII, the last actual war that was not simply intervention. James, how can we possibly publicly know every move our military will make without informing the enemy? I see just what you are saying, however, I wonder greatly the repercussions of purely demolishing them. What then happens with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran, to mention the largest of the surrounding countries. Honestly we do not know the answer, at least for certain. Guns scare me, wars scare me more. I understand facing down a specific enemy, but how specific is ISIS, when they are recruiting from around the world and seem to just consider all enemy, and what of Assad? What threat does he pose? I am actually not in a position to play devil's advocate when it comes to the Romans, or even when it comes to ISIS and I welcome every single view point. But this one just to me, does not seem that simple, the Middle East holds different values that we do, what will set them off, will we? Will ISIS? Will a world coalition? And then what will actually stop them? What pockets will loom after the destruction of ISIS that might morph again? Seems to me Americans are left with so many questions and to be honest I am not sure any of us can predict what will happen no matter what we do. As for Obama, is he hesitant or being deliberate? I do not know the answer.
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This may be the one best opportunity for the United States to recover a tarnished and badly battered image in the middle-East we've ever had. But we have to be fully engaged have a chance. The Arab nations that stand with us have not committed troops on the ground that I know of, only air support. So far as I know only Australia has committed ground troops. Look, the ISIL has made enemies of every group and nation out there and in that region. They are killing Sunni and Shea Muslims and Christians and any other peoples who don't follow to the letter their sick views. We need to be in there side by side to fight right along with the threatened ones. We have to make clear that we support them and their right to their faith. Make it clear that we are not against them as a people or religion but with them in a fight against evil and for liberty. You can't do that from an airplane dropping bombs. That only tells them we support them as long as our hands don't have to get dirty. I bring up an old saying that is as true today as it was when first penned "in for penny in for pound". Half measures are not going to be productive. As far as Assad goes, he has to go. If one of our bombs "accidentally" took him out, oh well. Who's to do anything about it. It has been long determined he no longer has a right to rule. Saudi Arabia has much to fear from ISIS. Two of the most holy sites in Islam lay within its borders. If we were to do nothing, absolutely nothing, the Saudis would be the target of ISIS in the next round. You can bet that the United States would use its full power then. You don't let a group like ISIS fester. Day by day they gain more power and resources. They are selling oil on the black market every single day. They are buying and selling slaves and drugs as well. If the armed forces of the United States stood side by side with Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the others in battle against a common enemy, making it plane that we are doing it because we want them to be free to worship as they wish, and to protect ourselves, maybe things can at last be different. We have a huge chance to mend some fences, but I'm afraid they are blowing it, again. The day the United States places combat troops on the ground there, watch as the Arab nations fall in line with our leadership and commit combat troops too. You can't lead from behind. To lead you must place yourselves in harms way. That is exactly what the United States is trying to avoid. As for myself, I would follow a true leader to the gates of hell, and not the undecided even one step.
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